Global Warming

[Roland]

Finally, a serious thread by me. But, global warming: Are you doing anything to stop it? Fluorescent bulbs? Double-glazed windows? Energy efficiant cars? Anything. Post here what you're doing, how you feel about the situation, or complain about how the governments aren't doing enough to stop it. Anything. On topic, of course.

[Mr.Onion]

They're not being eco-friendly. They're stuffing a bunch of dead trees through my letter box. :p

The Earth's temparature fluctuates, and I think it's going up at the moment. Although, Humans aren't helping it.

[AtkinsSJ]

The weather around here is definitely mucked-up. One day it's pretty cold and dark, the next a bit hot. It's getting worse, too.

[Coolguy]

The Earth's temparature fluctuates, and I think it's going up at the moment. Although, Humans aren't helping it.

Nobody's sure whether humans are causing global warming or whether the earth is going through a natural cycle. Humans haven't been around long enough to see if this is just something that's happened millions of times before on earth.

[Wesley]

Weather is wacky here. One day a couple of months ago, we practically had a heat wave. The very next day, we had a blizzard! (Or maybe it was the other way around, I don't remember.) It's hard to figure out whether it's the earth itself, or humans causing it. If we at least try to stop it, we don't have much to lose.

[AtkinsSJ]

We are making a difference. CO2 is a small percentage of the atmosphere, I forget what. Oh, it's 0.04%. (Thanks Wikipedia!) At that level, an increase to it becoming 0.05% seems very small. But that's a quarter more! That's 1.25 times as much insulation and whatnot, which makes a difference whether the Earth is heating up on a whim or not.

[evil eye]

Anybody hear of the contreversial campaign on getting people to switch off their lights? its called Flick Off and many people arent taking the name well

i wont say it outright but the logo makes the words look like a different word...

[happystickman]

Global woarming is a bunch of Ga-Hooey! The sun gets hotter and cooller NAT U RA LY!!! We cant stop it! Global warming is just a way for The Man to strike us down and make us panic!

[Coolguy]

Global woarming is a bunch of Ga-Hooey! The sun gets hotter and cooller NAT U RA LY!!! We cant stop it! Global warming is just a way for The Man to strike us down and make us panic!

There's no proof that global warming is natural. In fact, global warming started during the Industrial Revolution- right when humans started polluting the planet. Global warming could easily have been caused by humans.

[Wesley]

The Man to

At first, I thought that said, "The Manta". Anyway, I think global warming could have been caused be people too. There's a lot of evidence that helps the theory. Still, there are several people who strongly disagree with it.

[Roland]

The planet is naturally getting hotter, but humans nowadays are speeding up that process 100-fold. Have any of you have seen 'An Inconvenient Truth'? That explains it better than I can. And it has has Al Gore in it. Yay kids! Al Gore!

[happystickman]

"Global Warming Is Blary Blad!"-Al Gore

[AtkinsSJ]

People will always say that things are natural, because as long as they do that, they don't have to accept any blame, or make any effort to change their comfortable lives.
Unfortunately (This is going to sound bad - don't hit me!) the USA is responsible for a lot of CO2 emissions, because their cars guzzle petrol (gas) ten to the dozen. Because fuel is cheap over there.

[evil clone]

global warming is real but it isnt caused by humans even though we are speeding it up some. there is proof that it is natural. every (i forgot the specific time frame) there is an ice age that happens right after a "global warming". yes! its true we are about to get another ice age:shock: :shock: :shock:

[happystickman]

Yep, in a couple thousnad years.

[Roland]

America is by far the worst contributer. China's pretty bad, with their coal and such. Britain is doing pretty well actually. Yay them! But what we need is a government or a powerful authority or something to almost enforce it. To lead the charge. To make a start. We've done a lot of work on it at school, actually, so that helps. But as I said, some higher order should make it easier on people who energy save and fine people who energy waste and all that.

That ice age you're talking about... It's only going to be in Europe. Because global warming is affecting the ocean currents and, one day, if we don't do anything about it, could stop altogether, which means that it cools by a HUGE amount.

Or we could just blow up America. :p

[regeneratorizer]

You know, while working at Popeyes, wiping down the tables and trying to set the walls aflame with my mind, I had a brilliant idea for a SWC world about Global Warming.

It will be called, ''The Search for Global Warming''. In it, you play Alm Gorey. You search everywhere for Global Warming. Your bedroom, your front lawn, your mailbox. Eventually, you find Global Warming and hold a press conference about it. You hold up Global Warming, but everybody else somehow thinks it is a box. You try to explain to them that while it may look like a box, it is really Global Warming. They respond by sending you to the looney bin.

[Wesley]

I think Canada was the second worst next to America. We're trying to help though. Though I can't think of much right now, one of the things is in 2012, only florescent bulbs will be sold in stores, or something like that.

[Roland]

In Australia, that date is 2009! We have these bulbs in our house that are neither incandescent (the normal ones) or fluorescent ones. They're energyu saving, but I don't know what they are.

[CheeseLord]

They say that Global Warming is melting the polar ice cap, yet they never mention that it's all refreezing in Antarctica.

[Coolguy]

They say that Global Warming is melting the polar ice cap, yet they never mention that it's all refreezing in Antarctica.

Antarctica IS a polar ice cap! It's melting in Antarctica just as much as it's melting at the North pole.

[CheeseLord]

That's actually not true. What I meant was, the ice is melting in the Arctic and refreezing in the Antarctic. And the media conveniently leaves that fact out.

[Wesley]

They say that Global Warming is melting the polar ice cap, yet they never mention that it's all refreezing in Antarctica.

Where did you find this out?

[CheeseLord]

They've done studies, and they have found that Antarctica is expanding. I don't remember where I found that fact though. But it was a reliable source, not Wikipedia or something like that.

[Roland]

Dark Lord Farley? It sounds like something he would say. :p

[Ryuinfinity]

I always bike to school and no one in my immediate family even owns a car!

[Mossysox]

They've done studies, and they have found that Antarctica is expanding. I don't remember where I found that fact though. But it was a reliable source, not Wikipedia or something like that.

This (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4228411.stm) suggests otherwise. And you know, people could argue for hours over whether or not and to what degree global warming has been caused by human activity, but it wouldn't alter the fact that we are experiencing global warming, and that this is putting low-lying coastal communities at risk the whole world over. For some, it's a long-term threat; for others, it's much more immediate. But for once, we have a potential disaster involving natural forces that human beings can do something to prevent. Be a shame not to take the opportunity, by reducing our carbon emissions.

[Bearly]

every (i forgot the specific time frame) there is an ice age that happens right after a "global warming". yes! its true we are about to get another ice age:shock: :shock: :shock:

I thought we were overdue an iceage - it should have already happened but it hasn't yet. (maybe due to global warming??)

I recycle all paper, glass, plastics & tins (the council pick it up once a fortnight - the blue box scheme! :) ) also, switch off all lights when not in use and don't use air conditioing in my car (you use more petrol when you do). My fiancee walks to walk in the summer (ok, this is more for fitness, but it still heps the planet :))

[regeneratorizer]

You know, volcanic action around the world in one day spews forth more greenhouse gases than all of mans activities in one year. Or at least, thats what people tell me. And as we all know, everybody but me is crazy.

Also, we have started to use those energy efficient light bulbs. Not that we care about the environment(Oh, heavens no.) They just last longer than the other bulbs. Nevertheless, Al Gore would be proud of us.

[Mr.Onion]

IIRC, America has 4 tonnes of CO² per person per year than the UK. :p

[Roland]

Yah. Hey, and while I'm at it, what does IIRC stand for?

[WackieWatty]

I believe it stands for 'If I recall/remember correctly'

[varkarrus]

"Global Warming Is Blary Blad!"

seems more like a George Bush quote to me.

[Coolguy]

IIRC, America has 4 tonnes of CO² per person per year than the UK. :p

At least we're not as bad as China. (I think...? Lemme look that up. If not, Geography class is lying to me)

[AtkinsSJ]

Link (http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2-emissions.html) - Quite interesting. From 1996, though. Still, the US has the highest per capita emissions. Quite a few lowered, but a lot have increased dramatically.

[Coolguy]

Wow, several of those countries have almost huge amounts of increase. :shock: Even though we're the worst currently, a bunch of other countries are catching up.

But that's from 10 years ago- I hope that it hasn't gotten worse since then.

[Wesley]

Wow, Canada was #8. I actually thought it would be higher.

[Julian]

Wow, Canada was #8. I actually thought it would be higher.
It was - it was #4.

[Wesley]

It was - it was #4.

Whoops, my mistake. :oops:

[Roland]

Woah! In terms of emissions per capita, Australia's second!

4.63 is now my most hated number.

[Boo Slayer]

I'll beleive global warming when I can wear shorts in the middle of December without getting frostbite.

[Jamul]

So, as soon as you move to Southern California, then?

[regeneratorizer]

Wow, Canada was #8. I actually thought it would be higher.


No no. You see, Canada only has one road. Which means, there arent alot of cars out at one time. Thus, not alot of greenhouse gases are spewed from Canada.

Oh, and U.S. IS NUMBER 1! YAY! GO U.S.!

http://www.wpclipart.com/office/office_clipart/number-one.png

[PurpleKoopa]

Frankly, I think global warming is a load of baloney. And if you like baloney, it's... um... poisoned baloney.

[regeneratorizer]

Poisoned baloney is the best kind!

[Julian]

Frankly, I think global warming is a load of baloney. And if you like baloney, it's... um... poisoned baloney.
I agree. And so does my father. Global warming is PETTY!

[regeneratorizer]

When I get enough money, im going to buy a gas guzzling truck, just to make Al Gore mad.

[Roland]

I don't think you people see the point: Since there's a good chance it's real, and there's a lot of scientific evidence supporting it, we should still save energy anyway, since there's a good chance it's real. Lemme explain a bit better:

If Global Warming is true and we don't save energy and don't make any changes: We're doomed. We don't want that, now do we?

If Global Warming is true and we do save energy and make changes:
We're saved.

If Global Warming isn't true and we don't save energy and make changes: Well, um, we're lucky, then. I guess.

If Global Warming isn't true and we save energy: It might have a bit of an inconvenience and a slight economical effect, but it's not as bad as dooming us all.

See?

[regeneratorizer]

Actually,(I read somewheres) theres scientific data proving that Global Warming is wrong. However, most people are so absorbed in this belief that it is real(Probably because the teachers and news people preach about it in school and on the TV) that they refuse to see any other explanation, much less one that is very complex in nature(As this totally viable and true theory that proves Global Warming wrong is.)


........................

Oh, what was I saying? I blanked out there for a second. I hope I didnt go off on any scientific mini-rant....

[Roland]

Yes, but even if there is a good chance that it isn't real, I still don't want to risk the world.

[Julian]

WE don't contibute: Still Global Warming as the sun's rays get trapped inside the earth.
WE DO contibute: No faster.

[Mr.Onion]

Regardless of whether global warming is true, saving energy solves a whole host of other problems.

[PurpleKoopa]

Um, yes, saving energy is good and stuff. But that doesn't mean if we don't, everyone will die soon. Silly people.

[Roland]

Yes, but we're taking a risk in saying that. We're putting a lot on the line. You could be right, I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not an outside chance that global warming does exist and if it does and we don't believe in it... Blech.

[AtkinsSJ]

I can't help noticing that it's Americans who tend not to believe that global warming is true.

[evil eye]

I dont agree with that statement. look around and you will see that global warming is real. look at all the smokestacks spewing out pollution and sewers dumping out garbage. i once read a very powerful book written for young children about these fantasy creatures called the Wumps. they lived in a peaceful forest world and one day for absolutely no reason these strange beings come to their planet, take control of it and do some of the worst damage i have seen to a natural world. look around for it at your local library and reading it will make you see just how similar the creatures are to helpless animals having their homes destroyed by pollution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wump_World

also according to the Flick Off campaign we have less than 10 years before global warming kills life as we know it...

I won't link to the site due to the reasoning in my last post but anyone interested can google it on their own.

[PurpleKoopa]

Silly people. :)

[31337]

I think global warming is a huge issue! I am burning up over here!

[Roland]

Silly people. :)

I'm sorry, but where's the logic in that? Ignorance? Sorry, I'm on a ranty roll here, but it's a serious issue...

[regeneratorizer]

I'm sorry, but where's the logic in that? Ignorance? Sorry, I'm on a ranty roll here, but it's a serious issue...
If by ''Serious'' you mean ''Nonexistant''

[happystickman]

Wow,this is turning into a Debate! Im on Regen side! Now for a quote.

Global Warming is Very Bad-Al Gore

Global Warming is False-Me

Global Warming does exiset but humans arnt making it happen. Nature is! The sun gets hotter and cooller as years go by and humans cant stop that! Can they! Can they!

[evil eye]

If by ''Serious'' you mean ''Nonexistant''

I had a rebuttal to that but i changed my mind. I'll just stick with- Hello? it's defiantly NOT non-existent!

[Mr.Onion]

Show us evidence.

[AtkinsSJ]

I think this is one of those 'Why would world governments be getting so worried about it if it doesn't exist?' thingies. Then again, most governments would be more at home in a zoo exhibit.
Anyway, yeah, it might not be real. But it began at the start of the industrial revolution. And what if it IS real?

[WackieWatty]

Well, thanks to the Gulf stream, as the world gets hotter, we should be getting colder.:roll:

[Roland]

I can't help noticing that it's Americans who tend not to believe that global warming is true.

Well picked up, and there's a reason for this: Americans are by FAR the most negative contributer to Global Warming, and they're guilty because of that, so they pretend it's not real.

[regeneratorizer]

'Why would world governments be getting so worried about it if it doesn't exist?'

Have you forgotten who the leader of America is?

http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/image_full/international/photosvideos/photos/george-bush-leads-the-us-towar.jpg

And, as everybody knows, it is the president of the United States who controls the world. Yeah, we Americans rock like that.

Americans are by FAR the most negative contributer to Global Warming, and they're guilty because of that, so they pretend it's not real.

Well, this is turning into sort of a religion thing. Either you believe in it or not. If you believe in it, apparently, we are all going to die, and the only thing we can do about it is slow it down. If you dont believe in it, nobody will die from Global Warming, cause it doesnt exist. Now, I dont know about you, but I am an optimist. :D

Also, ever since I have heard about Global warming, I have been doing more and more to '' help it further along'' just to make those who believe in it mad. I never really contributed to global warming before I heard about it.

[Roland]

That's not all of what I'm trying to say, have a look back at one of my earlier posts:
I don't think you people see the point: Since there's a good chance it's real, and there's a lot of scientific evidence supporting it, we should still save energy anyway, since there's a good chance it's real. Lemme explain a bit better:

If Global Warming is true and we don't save energy and don't make any changes: We're doomed. We don't want that, now do we?

If Global Warming is true and we do save energy and make changes:
We're saved.

If Global Warming isn't true and we don't save energy and make changes: Well, um, we're lucky, then. I guess.

If Global Warming isn't true and we save energy: It might have a bit of an inconvenience and a slight economical effect, but it's not as bad as dooming us all.

See?

What I mean is, unless we're THAT THAT THAT THAT sure that global warming doesn't exist, we must still take precautions. Even if I believe what you believe, that there's a 5% chance we're all doomed around about, I don't want to risk the consequences. It's not like religion, where there's about 50 different religions, and almost all believe that every other religion is wrong, and a fair lot believe that those that don't will die horribly somehow. And even if there were only 2, you can't fiegn a religious belief, because the god knows that you don't really believe. With global warming, all you have to do is take steps to reducing Greenhouse Gas emissions, and if we do it well, then the CO2 emissions will actually go down. I'm not pressuring onto you that global warming is in fact true, even though I believe so, but, well, I won't say it again.

[regeneratorizer]

Two points to make.

1. Assuming that Global Warming exists, and that it is the end of the world, then wouldnt you rather it come sooner than later? I would. But thats just me. Enduring suspense has never been my strong point.

2. Assuming that Global Warming exists, it is NOT the end of the world. Humans survived the last ones with minimal to no technology, I think, with our current level of technology, we can survive this one.

[blackmyth]

Unless it messes up the electronics, and they go berserk and attack us. :p

[Coolguy]

2. Assuming that Global Warming exists, it is NOT the end of the world. Humans survived the last ones with minimal to no technology, I think, with our current level of technology, we can survive this one.

The trouble is that global warming could pretty much kill everything else in the world, though. :p Not to mention that the sea level will rise from the melting ice caps, and places that were once dry cities will become seabeds. Global warming would be a disaster!

This could be natural- Just the ice age / not ice age cycle continuing. However, the fact that it started exactly when we start polluting the earth is strong evidence that this is all our fault. (Or at least partially our fault)

[Roland]

Two points to make.

1. Assuming that Global Warming exists, and that it is the end of the world, then wouldnt you rather it come sooner than later? I would. But thats just me. Enduring suspense has never been my strong point.

2. Assuming that Global Warming exists, it is NOT the end of the world. Humans survived the last ones with minimal to no technology, I think, with our current level of technology, we can survive this one.

1. No, because, as Al Gore shows, if we do it well, the CO2 emissions will drop, and if we kept it up, we'd never die of global warming!

2. Well, life's going to be pretty horrible constantly being in a heatwave and with ocean levels up to our chins! Technology is the problem!

[The Emperor Master]

1. No, because, as Al Gore shows, if we do it well, the CO2 emissions will drop, and if we kept it up, we'd never die of global warming!

2. Well, life's going to be pretty horrible constantly being in a heatwave and with ocean levels up to our chins! Technology is the problem!

And since when was Al Gore right about anything? Keep in mind the guy claimed he made the internet! His "Inconvenient Truth" video was a bunch of panicist distortion designed to make him look like he cares about the enviroment so that HE'D BE ELECTED IN 2008. Woo.
Want more proof?

"There has been a net warming of the earth over the last century and a half, and our greenhouse gas emissions are contributing at some level. Both of these statements are almost certainly true. What of it? Recently many people have said that the earth is facing a crisis requiring urgent action. This statement has nothing to do with science. There is no compelling evidence that the warming trend we've seen will amount to anything close to catastrophe... Looking back on the earth's climate history, it's apparent that there's no such thing as an optimal temperature -- a climate at which everything is just right. The current alarm rests on the false assumption not only that we live in a perfect world, temperaturewise, but also that our warming forecasts for the year 2040 are somehow more reliable than the weatherman's forecast for next week" -- MIT meteorology professor Richard S. Lindzen.

[Roland]

Yes, but Al Gore is not the only one supporting the theory. In fact, that's an understatement. There's PLENTY of other qualified scientists in the world supporting the climate change theory, many more than there are the other way, in fact. Is it ANY COINCIDENCE that CO2 levels have shot up like a rocket since we started polluting? A very big one, I must say. Yes, that guy could be right, but it's still a HUGE coincidence!

[happystickman]

Not to mention that the sea level will rise from the melting ice caps

The rising water level is not or fault people! Blame the changing tempuature of the sun. CO2 levels Can Not Make the world be Hotter. It just a way for The Man to get to you.

[Bacon Bits]

I've found this to be the best indicator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ratio_of_GDP_to_carbon_dioxid e_emissions

That shows how much a country produces relative to how much CO2 it emits. The US is still the worlds largest emission source, but it's also the nation with the world's largest GDP. The EU really does much better, though. But hey, they agreed to Kyoto, et al. China emits about the same amount as the EU, but they only produce 12% of what the EU does.

Anthropogenic Global Warming is still debated amongst experts, although those who argue for "no appreciable climate change" are largely gone. At the moment, it's a matter of how much we're affecting climate. There have been arguments about the planet moving out of an Ice Age, arguments about sunspots, and arguments that planetary temperatures are increasing solar-system-wide (meaning that Mars, Venus, etc. are experiencing global climate change, too). Not all of these have well-supported and confirmed studies behind them, either, because in some cases (such as extra-terrestrial planetary climate) we don't have very much data at all. It's a far more complex issue than the ozone layer (which is now regenerating) where you could just point a special camera at the planet and clearly see the problem.

In the end, though, it's clear we should be doing *something* to reduce the impact of humanity on the planet. Florescent bulbs (which contain mercury) and hybrid automobiles (which produce hundreds of pounds of toxic waste every 5-6 years) are not the best solutions. Diesel cars, popular in Europe due to their fuel efficiency, are not available for sale in 5 US states (including California and New York) because they fail to meet emissions standards (truck standards are different).

[regeneratorizer]

Yes, but Al Gore is not the only one supporting the theory. In fact, that's an understatement. There's PLENTY of other qualified scientists in the world supporting the climate change theory, many more than there are the other way, in fact.
According to Wiki, most scientific reports are ''edited'' because the sceintists views on Global Warming are different than the government. We all know where the government stands, so its obvious, again, that those scientists support the opposite.

And, because most scientists are either not allowed or havent yet expressed their views on Global Warming, DO NOT say ''We have more scientists on our side!'' Thats just being ignorant.

I still say that this is a ''Doomsday situation'' in our heads. If you will notice, all throughout history, everybody thinks that ''Oh god, this is it! The end of the world!'' A while back(When my mother was a kid, I think?) There was some guy selling ''Rapture Kits'' that would help you out since the ''Rapture was coming soon''.

[Mr.Onion]

According to Wiki, most scientific reports are ''edited'' because the sceintists views on Global Warming are different than the government. We all know where the government stands, so its obvious, again, that those scientists support the opposite.

Oldthinkers unbellyfeel Ingsoc.

And, because most scientists are either not allowed or havent yet expressed their views on Global Warming, DO NOT say ''We have more scientists on our side!'' Thats just being ignorant.
"Can half a billion people be wrong?"

I still say that this is a ''Doomsday situation'' in our heads. If you will notice, all throughout history, everybody thinks that ''Oh god, this is it! The end of the world!'' A while back(When my mother was a kid, I think?) There was some guy selling ''Rapture Kits'' that would help you out since the ''Rapture was coming soon''.
"So this is it. We're going to die."

[The Emperor Master]

Yes, but Al Gore is not the only one supporting the theory. In fact, that's an understatement. There's PLENTY of other qualified scientists in the world supporting the climate change theory, many more than there are the other way, in fact. Is it ANY COINCIDENCE that CO2 levels have shot up like a rocket since we started polluting? A very big one, I must say. Yes, that guy could be right, but it's still a HUGE coincidence!

Ironic that we could only MEASURE THEM since we started polluting!
Does anybody remember the Ice Age scare in the 70s? No?
Same scientists.

[AtkinsSJ]

Admittedly, the governments are quite likely to be acting in order to look good to the populace. However, Regen, you can't compare scientific warnings with crazy end-of-the-world guys. Many of the 'the world changes on its own' arguments have been found to be unfounded.
Yes, there's quite possibly a natural cycle going on here, but pumping the atmosphere full of CO2 isn't going to help matters. Even if there is natural global warming, it can't hurt to not make it worse.

[WackieWatty]

Basically, taking no notice of what the government says, is the best way to go about things.

Global warming is definitely happening, no matter what you want to believe. Maybe if we moved the Earth further away from the sun just a little bit....

[regeneratorizer]

Many of the 'the world changes on its own' arguments have been found to be unfounded.


...

Then how do you explain the start AND end of the last Ice Age? Man CERTAINLY didnt have the technology to start and end it, and im assuming that all other animals on earth didnt, either. That means the world changes on its own. Thats proof enough for me.

To Roland:

1. No, because, as Al Gore shows, if we do it well, the CO2 emissions will drop, and if we kept it up, we'd never die of global warming!

...... Now that is just ignorant. If the second ice age is going to happen, it will happen whether we want it to or not. It will happen whether we reduce, or even completely eliminate CO2 emmissions. They never had anything manmade that could produce CO2 emmissions back in the last Ice Age, so according to you, it couldnt have happened?


2. Well, life's going to be pretty horrible constantly being in a heatwave and with ocean levels up to our chins! Technology is the problem!


I seriously doubt that, even if everything in the world flooded and the ozone layer completely depleted, that it would stay like that for very long. Either the Earth will repair itself, or we will find a way to repair it.

[The Emperor Master]

I'm sure the plants don't mind the CO2. More food for them!

[Roland]

...

Then how do you explain the start AND end of the last Ice Age? Man CERTAINLY didnt have the technology to start and end it, and im assuming that all other animals on earth didnt, either. That means the world changes on its own. Thats proof enough for me.

To Roland:



...... Now that is just ignorant. If the second ice age is going to happen, it will happen whether we want it to or not. It will happen whether we reduce, or even completely eliminate CO2 emmissions. They never had anything manmade that could produce CO2 emmissions back in the last Ice Age, so according to you, it couldnt have happened?





I seriously doubt that, even if everything in the world flooded and the ozone layer completely depleted, that it would stay like that for very long. Either the Earth will repair itself, or we will find a way to repair it.

1st Paragraph: Notice how that was an Ice Age? Eh? Has there ever been any heatwaves? No! And yes, the world does change on it's own. But since we've started polluting, CO2 levels have skyrocketed and temperatures have gone bang up! Coincidence? An awfully large one, I must admit.

2nd Paragraph: I said nothing about any ice ages! AND WHY DOES THIS MAKE ME IGNORANT!?!? :shock: And if the CO2 levels go down too low, we can just pollute more. Also, the Ice Age was a lack of CO2 emmissions!
Call me ignorant, I'm not fussed, but to follow that up with a comment like that? Yeah.

3rd Paragraph: "The earth will repair itself" What the heck! The earth can't just immediately repair itself! And the, "we will find a way to protect it" bit... To do that, you can start by saving energy! :p

Also, Empreror Master... No comment. :x

[regeneratorizer]

1st Paragraph: Notice how that was an Ice Age? Eh? Has there ever been any heatwaves? No! And yes, the world does change on it's own. But since we've started polluting, CO2 levels have skyrocketed and temperatures have gone bang up! Coincidence? An awfully large one, I must admit.



Hah! The temperature skyrocketing is completely natural, and I have graphs to prove it.

First, heres one that im sure one of you will use sooner or later.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/warm12.gif

Note that the line is very stable until it gets to about 1950. Wow, suspicious! Thats when we started polluting, apparently! However, look at this graph showing the temp and whatnot over thousands of years.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/images/b/bb/Holocene_Temperature_Variations_Rev.png

Now, im not entirely sure what most of this means, but im fairly certain that the gist of it is temperature over thousands of years. Note that the VERY VERY last part of this graph matches up with the graph above. The very last squiggles(The black and the red ones). If you would compare that squiggle with some of the more bigger squiggles? Doesnt seem all that significant now, does it? It looks to me like what we are experiencing is completely normal.




EDIT: Also, if you are THAT concered about Global Warming, dress up like a pirate. This graph will explain.

http://static.flickr.com/35/70683016_77704cf15e.jpg

[evil eye]

But, global warming: Are you doing anything to stop it? Fluorescent bulbs? Double-glazed windows? Energy efficiant cars?

anybody have an answer to that instead of us pointlessly arguing?

Edit: Me I use those swirly fluorescent bulbs and try as hard as I can to cut down on energy wasting

[Jamul]

Ah, I can answer that! We've got all those fancy new bulbs, our windows are actually double-glazed but they just came that way, and we got a diesel car in order to put biodiesel in it. I must admit, we still have yet to put any in (it's 1.5 hours to go get it, then we have to haul the drums back in a trailer, it's both a big project and scary to contemplate actually doing. Why won't they sell it around here?). But the diesel gets way better mileage anyway, and with the crazy gas prices, diesel has actually become cheaper than regular gas.

We also have rock-solid intentions to go solar and/or wind when possible, but saving up the money is very hard (so BDG! It'll save the world!). We also give to charities of this sort sometimes.

[evil eye]

:shock::D

Way to go jamul!!! *cheers; stands and claps*

We should all do our part:D

[blackmyth]

I do my part by um... Supporting what you all do.

[Roland]

A good thing about some of these energy-saving products is that they're actually more conventional. Minus the price, that is.

[Jamul]

As a general rule, switching to energy-saving and lower-pollution devices will save money in the long run. Corporations always heavily resist putting in all that stuff, because there's a big cost and they figure that's all there is to it, but once it's in, they save tons of money as they continue operating.

It's just fundamentally good all around: more efficiency=less pollution=cheaper to run=simpler equipment=easier to maintain
=easier to operate=cheaper to train for=saving the planet=saving money! The downside? Installation/upgrade cost (and the downside for society as a whole is the ongoing research costs to develop newer, simpler, more efficient technology). Very much worth it.

If you don't understand the idea of 'simpler' in this context, it works on many levels. Foremost, the simpler a device (the less parts it has), the more efficient it will be, assuming it still has enough parts to do what it has to do. That's because more parts means more places for friction and energy loss. Not to mention building it - the less parts it has, the cheaper it is to build (of course, nowadays there are costs involved in the exotic materials you might need for newer technology, though). And to maintain it afterwards is certainly easier if it has less parts.

Secondly, on a larger level, take solar power. It draws energy from the sun. Compare to, say, biodiesel: it draws energy from plants which draw energy from the sun. Compare to fossil fuels: draw energy from oil, which is compressed plant and animal matter, which got its energy from the sun (in the case of animals, got it from plants which got it from the sun, or carnivorous animals got it from animals which got it from plants which got it from the sun), and then was compressed in the earth for eons. Notice how each one of these involves more steps than the previous, steps in which the energy is lost in other directions (the plant gets energy from the sun, but doesn't store it all - it has to use some of it to live!). So solar is 'simpler' - fewer steps between the power source and your batteries.

Incidentally, batteries also waste power. If you feed a solar panel direct to what you want to power, you keep far more energy than if you put it in a battery first. I think you lose something like 30% (maybe that's also if you have to convert it to AC along the way, I forget where I read that)! Every step costs you. Of course, there are gains and uses for steps in between - batteries certainly are handy.

So, the only real point I have is that when people lament the expense of 'going green', and talk about environmentalism as some kind of horrible drain on the economy (and in fact have talked about global warming as a clever ruse to try to destroy American businesses - yes, really!), they're wrong. For individuals, going solar is prohibitively expensive. Huge upfront cost, and 10-20 years to recoup your investment through energy savings (and the panels only last around 15 years, I think). I wish people would do it, and I want to do it, but it only really makes sense as a way to help the world, not as a selfish act (and it won't be popular until it works for selfish reasons!). But for corporations, all the things they can do to cut their pollution and energy use will save them money and increase their profits! It's ironic that they're wasting yet more money lobbying against doing just that.

[evil eye]

Good points:D

I did the FIRST (http://www.usfirst.org/) Lego League (http://www.firstlegoleague.org/) last year and the research topic was nanotechnology. This year it is alternate fuel/energy sources which is sort of what we're discussing. I'm coming back as a mentor to the team and jamul I would like to use what you just posted, if its alright with you, in part of my (for lack of better word) report to the team?:)

[PurpleKoopa]

I have no problem with energy saving devices. They're pretty awesome. :D I do have a problem with those who say, "the world is overheating".

[blackmyth]

Solar panels look cool. 8)

[regeneratorizer]

Solar panels look cool. 8)

Indeed. In fact, my glasses have solar panels instead of lenses, in order to cut down on their energy usage.

[Mr.Onion]

Glasses use energy? :?

[AtkinsSJ]

Yes. Especially transitions lenses.

[Roland]

No. Regen's just fooling around.

[regeneratorizer]

Blasphemy!

[The Emperor Master]

I'm going to stop after this post since this topic is a huge annoyance, but i'd advise those who still believe in global warming to check all of this out.

http://sitewave.net/news/s49p1354.htm

(note that I mean a lot of the website, not just that article).

Off I go. :D

[Jamul]

And everyone should be aware that any one source is not going to be definitive. On any topic, figure out who you trust, and then verify it with other sources too! The internet is not a good place to find out what's true.

[The Emperor Master]

Obviously. that's just one of the many sources i've encountered.

[Roland]

Exactly. All MY evidence wasn't from the sometimes unreliable INTERNET! (though there wasn't really much-whatev...)

[Licking Post]

I'm starting to get annoyed that people are talking about "believing in global warming" and whether global warming is true or not. I don't think that should even be a topic of this debate. Global warming is true! Look at all the evidence. Solar ice caps are melting, temperatures are rising (just look at that temperature chart Regen had a few posts ago), frogs are dying, etc. The real question is whether we are causing it.

Evidence of global warming has been found on other planets in our polar system. It is not just a problem here on earth. I can think of four explanations for this.
1. Global warming is caused by increased emissions from the sun.
2. We're belching out greenhouse gasses at such an enormous rate that they are leaking to the other planets.
3. Aliens are transporting our greenhouse gasses to said planets.
4. Aliens are actually living on said planets, and are producing their own greenhouse gasses that cause global warming on said planets.

You decide which is most plausible.

P.S. As of this post I am now a Medium Mortal! That's not why I posted it, though.

[PurpleKoopa]

Some problems in your post, Licking.

regeneratorizer's graph is being used to show that it might be getting hotter, but it doesn't look like you looked at the second graph.

First, heres one that im sure one of you will use sooner or later.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/warm12.gif

Note that the line is very stable until it gets to about 1950. Wow, suspicious! Thats when we started polluting, apparently! However, look at this graph showing the temp and whatnot over thousands of years.

http://www.globalwarmingart.com/images/b/bb/Holocene_Temperature_Variations_Rev.png

Now, im not entirely sure what most of this means, but im fairly certain that the gist of it is temperature over thousands of years. Note that the VERY VERY last part of this graph matches up with the graph above. The very last squiggles(The black and the red ones). If you would compare that squiggle with some of the more bigger squiggles? Doesnt seem all that significant now, does it? It looks to me like what we are experiencing is completely normal.
And alien theories are silly. This is scientific, not science fiction.

On a slightly unrelated note, all this talk is reminding me of mafia games. Is it deadline yet, mod? ;)

[Licking Post]

There's nothing wrong with my post. The second graph doesn't say that the temperature isn't rising, it just says that it has done it in the past. My whole point was that the temperature is rising, and I said nothing about whether it has done so in the past. And I only put the alien theories (and the gas leak theory) in there to emphasize that the increasing sun emissions is the only plausible explanation. Please note that I'm not saying greenhouse gas emissions aren't a problem, but they definitely aren't the only problem, as they can't explain global warming on other planets.

[Coolguy]

There's also the possibility that this is just a normal cycle of ice age / not ice age that we're going through. :p

[regeneratorizer]

I have a link to an hour long documentary on why Global Warming doesnt exist, but im too lazy to go through it and make sure there arent any bad things in it.



The earth is warming.
The ice caps are melting.
The water is rising.
And its all your fault.
Scared?
Dont be.
Because its completely untrue.

[Licking Post]

But global warming does exist! You even presented the evidence yourself, Regen. But it has happened before, and cooled down again, long before we had the technology to produce greenhouse gasses (so it must have been the cows' fault back then--kidding!) meaning it is caused by something natural, like changing intensity of sun emissions (which also rise and fall, like our temperatures).

[chaucer]

My opinions on global warming are this: Yes, it is real, no, it isn't a time bomb ticking down to doomsday (like some scientists think). I think there is also a period of global cooling, and that the earth cycles through the two periodically. There were the dinosaurs in the extremely hot period, but then there was the time after them when it was extremely cold. Now, we're in a period that is hot.

[Mr.Onion]

This graph:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/warm12.gif

Shows the temperature rising above average by about 0.66 of a degree over about 1 thousand years. Also, the highest temperature before that, in about 1225 was easily 0.59 degrees over the average. (assuming that the 0.0 line is the average.) And it's entirely possible that this is the start of an anti-ice-age, since such cycles are known to take 10 of millions of years.

[Baconstrips]

They say that Global Warming is melting the polar ice cap, yet they never mention that it's all refreezing in Antarctica.
DITTO! Not only are they melting, but they refreeze and melt again. Also, humans do not contribute to global warming in a significant amout, but they have everything to do with polution!!!
And speaking of weather, there seem to half as many birds around were I am, and all the box elder bugs disappeared!

[Crabwarrior]

But global warming does exist! You even presented the evidence yourself, Regen. But it has happened before, and cooled down again, long before we had the technology to produce greenhouse gasses (so it must have been the cows' fault back then--kidding!) meaning it is caused by something natural, like changing intensity of sun emissions (which also rise and fall, like our temperatures).(imphasis added)

Did you know that methane gas from cows is more responsible for global warming than all that CO2 we produce? :p

[PlasmaCannonsRule]

I don't no moo about cows causing GW. :p

[31337]

Cows are major waste producers and thus produce alot of gases such as methane.

[Coolguy]

I knew it- Cows are bringing about the downfall of the human race! :p

Even if global warming isn't our fault, we should still be environment-friendly. :p

[Roland]

Agreed. Also, I've got a feeling the cows are teaming up with some other authorities... Were-Kangaroos, anyone?

[AtkinsSJ]

Better warning: Don't use a lighter at all. Hey kids! Don't smoke!

[happystickman]

Cows Cant cause global Warming! There was a man who was locked in a closed room with 20 cows for a month and didnt die! Cows produce So little methane and CO2 that it cant effect us humans.

[PurpleKoopa]

I love how this was a serious discussion but now it's about cows. :D

Well done.

[Crabwarrior]

Cows can't cause global warming! There was a man who was locked in a room with 20 cows for a month and he didn't die! Cows produce So little methane and CO2 that it can't effect us humans. METHANE (CH4) ISN'T POISENOUS!

[Jamul]

True... however:

Simple asphyxiants are physiologically inert. When present in high concentration, they displace the oxygen in the atmosphere. Victims exposed to them will suffer from lack of oxygen. Carbon dioxide and methane are classic examples of simple asphyxiant.

It'll still kill you! Of course, I think HSM's post is really goofy, and I'd love to see the source on that. And besides, it would kill the cows just as much as the guy - turns out they also breathe oxygen. One can assume there was some sort of hole in this purported room to let air in, otherwise they'd all die, methane or not.

[varkarrus]

Actually, if he was in a locked room, he would die anyway from removing his oxygen supply. If he didn't die from that, then it must be airtight, therefore, the cow's gas couldn't kill him!