How do we speed mafia up?

[Mr.Onion]

Mafia games are too slow. Not just Candy mafia, but the entire mafia list is taking too long to process. It is taking the best part of 10 months for any single person to host twice. Any suggestions to make it faster?

[Coolguy]

It's more like 6 monthes. :p

1) Replace lurkers faster!
2) All hosts should visit at least every day.
3) Start the game at night.

I don't see much beyond that.

[Mr.Onion]

Why does starting the game at night help?

[Connor S.]

Day one is always so slow because tyheres NO evedince. night always speeds thinghs up. more people acting strangely after a night., it also gives cops a chance to inspect.

[Justin]

And gives the mafia and sks chances to kill, lessening the player count and game length.

[Coolguy]

The kill and inspections can be used as evidence.

[Ryuinfinity]

A 10 player limit.

[Ufo-Man]

how about day and night can only each last 24 hours unless they have a good reason.
Tell when you are going to be gone.
If you dont want to target anyone at night (or at day if you have a day power except lynching) Then you PM the host saying " I target nobody".

[Wesley]

I agree that games are too long. I don't really see anything else that hasn't been said that will help except maybe hosting two games at the same time. However, a some things will have to happen, to ensure that a person playing in one game doesn't get mixed up with the other:

1. If there are two games playing, you can only play for ONE of them. Also, you can only sign up for one of them, to avoid confusion.

2. Both games must be in separate forums. Past mafia games have been in both Total Mayham, and Non-Hamumu Games, so why not those two? Doing this will help get in the routine to visiting the right forum, while if both games were in the same place, it would be easy to mix up the games.

3. Nobody can really force this, but It's not advised to play one game and watch the other. It could cause more problems.


I can't really think of anything else right now. If this seems possible through some more additions, etc. Then maybe we could try it once, and depending on the results, continue it.

[Ryuinfinity]

Good idea!

[Ufo-Man]

I say that 16 people is a good number.

[PlasmaCannonsRule]

I say that 16 people is a good number.

Me too. (I had 16 roles planned out for Candy Mafia anyhow)

[Ufo-Man]

How about if you have been a lurker host * times in a row, then you will have to wait * games before you can host.

[Coolguy]

How about if you have been a lurker host * times in a row, then you will have to wait * games before you can host.

Lurking already counts as a broken game, so their next game goes back 3 slots.

[Ufo-Man]

oh,ok.

[Justin]

Lurking already counts as a broken game, so their next game goes back 3 slots.

Besides when Hammered un-fairly calls my game more then a lurking broken and says I did two broken games when I've only HOSTED any one game in the first place.

[Hammered]

I have an extensive list of problems in your game, Justin. It was not my idea to call it broken. I received complaints from many people. The lurking hosting was counted as a second failure in the same game because it was so ridiculously excessive.

The list of people who want to host is very long. If a host needs to be away from his game for an extended period, he should trade places with the host who is to follow him. If something comes up after the game has already started, he should designate an alternate to run the game in his absence and give that alternate enough information to run it. Dragging out your game is not fair to your players or the other people on the host list.

[AtkinsSJ]

I haven't liked the whole organised list thing from the start. It prevented squabbles, but I just have a real dislike of attempts to control things.

Anyway, more relevantly, mafia gets more broken as time goes on, and I can think of a few possible reasons:

People are getting bored of vanilla mafia, so more unusual roles and game mechanics are tried, which haven't been tested because of the long waiting list.
Some people are getting too good at mafia, so as we get new, less experienced players in, an effort is made to level the field, similarly to #1.
People have to wait so long to host that they want to make their games memorable, and they have forever to invent complicated things that can happen in their game.
There are few good hosts, and their games are few and far between, because of the list.So, um, I'm getting very ranty, and I didn't intend to be. And most of this is ranting against the list, and the list is possibly a necessary evil. Please, anyone feel free to argue against me and pick holes. I just think mafia is dying.

[Ryuinfinity]

I agree! I think no more signups for mafia hosting. The people currently on the list, then no more mafia.

[PlasmaCannonsRule]

I agree! I think no more signups for mafia hosting. The people currently on the list, then no more mafia.

NO! Mafia must live on!

[Connor S.]

yes, but that means new host,s that could potentially be good ones, never get to host a game. ;) I think we just need to revise the list- or give Wesleys ideea a try. I think that ha gret potential. It would completely cut the list in half! That way, maybe people can actually host within this
lifetime! :shock:

[Coolguy]

Split the list in 2- A set of games for experienced players and a set of ones for inexperienced ones. Then the new players will still have a chance to win / learn how to play the game on their own, and the more experienced players won't have to fight with players that just bandwagon or lurk. :p This could help with Atkins' problems 2-4, as only experienced hosts could sign up for the experienced league list. Both lists would be smaller, although each game would probably have less players.

[Wesley]

It's more like 6 monthes. :p

1) Replace lurkers faster!
2) All hosts should visit at least every day.
3) Start the game at night.

I don't see much beyond that.

Those ideas seem pretty simple, but things like that could help a little. I'm not sure about #2 though. Not everyone will be here all day, every day. I have an idea, which was partially used in my game:

In my game, I was briefly away, and Hammered took over for a bit, and just basically posted night. This got me to thinking. If someone tries to be here as much as possible, but might not make it, perhaps having a second person in charge could help. You know, post night, perhaps day, if there isn't anything too complicated. Maybe a vote count every now and then. However, a some things must have to happen:

1) The Co-Host, Second-In-Charge, whatever you want to call it, can't be playing in the game. That person will have a look to the roles, etc., and if that person were to play in the game... Well, I don't even need to say it.

2) There has to be a limit. The Co-Host can't run the entire game! Perhaps one day/night, and if a very good excuse is PMed to the Co-Host, and perhaps Hammered or Jamul, more then that. However, if a certain amount of time is passed, and the Host is not back without an excuse, a punishment might have to be made. The equivalent of lurking would work.

3) The Host might have to have separate signups for the Co-Host, maybe in the original signup topic.

I haven't liked the whole organised list thing from the start. It prevented squabbles, but I just have a real dislike of attempts to control things.

Anyway, more relevantly, mafia gets more broken as time goes on, and I can think of a few possible reasons:
People are getting bored of vanilla mafia, so more unusual roles and game mechanics are tried, which haven't been tested because of the long waiting list.
Some people are getting too good at mafia, so as we get new, less experienced players in, an effort is made to level the field, similarly to #1.
People have to wait so long to host that they want to make their games memorable, and they have forever to invent complicated things that can happen in their game.
There are few good hosts, and their games are few and far between, because of the list.So, um, I'm getting very ranty, and I didn't intend to be. And most of this is ranting against the list, and the list is possibly a necessary evil. Please, anyone feel free to argue against me and pick holes. I just think mafia is dying.

As PCR said before: NO! Mafia must live on! It's big part of this forum. (Not as much as Hamumu Games and Dumb Topics, but still a big part) Just because a few problems are happening is no reason to stop it. It's been going on for so long, it just seems normal for Hamumu to have mafia games. It where people can be creative, and try many things. I wouldn't say it is dying. More games are a little broken, but that's because new users are playing, and I bet when most people first started playing, they weren't very good. Everyone has to start somewhere. My first game was almost hopelessly broken, but my second game was something else altogether. It was dramatically improved, for several reasons. Hosting is fun! Playing is fun! There may be squabbles every now and then, but these things happen.
Umm... What was my point again? Oh right. Mafia's good. Go mafia.

Split the list in 2- A set of games for experienced players and a set of ones for inexperienced ones. Then the new players will still have a chance to win / learn how to play the game on their own, and the more experienced players won't have to fight with players that just bandwagon or lurk. :p This could help with Atkins' problems 2-4, as only experienced hosts could sign up for the experienced league list. Both lists would be smaller, although each game would probably have less players.

This setting could work. Everyone would be in their own field here. After more games are played, maybe new players could join old players, if they feel ready. Or, if an old player feels like a less hectic or strange game, they could join a game hosted by a new person.

[PurpleKoopa]

Frankly, I think the quality of the games should not be lowered simply to finish the game quicker and to get on with the next one.

Splitting the list in two is fine. It could take care of any hosting complaints while not hurrying the game. But I don't want to see any of the games being hurryed up simply for the sake of finishing it.

[Coolguy]

Frankly, I think the quality of the games should not be lowered simply to finish the game quicker and to get on with the next one.


It's not that quality is being lowered, it's just that players are left sitting waiting for the host a lot in games. I don't see how that increases the quality.

If you're talking about things like day deadlines and such, I agree, but I don't think the current conversation is talking about that.

[Hammered]

Yes, splitting the list in two will speed up the games by having fewer players in each game and hosts will get more frequent turns because twice as many games will be happening. Hopefully, the net effect of the two combined will bring the wait time for hosting down from around 8 months to around 2 months.

Day deadlines are always very bad for the town, because a full majority is not required when it is near the end of the day, and all the mafia can pile onto one person right before the end of the day and prevail without a need for any kind of quality play on their part.

[Roland]

Honestly, the idea that we should split into two factions is a...

Great one? I really, to be honest, think there are becoming a lot of newbies, and logic sometimes is voided, simply because person X, doing that move, which should have great weight in suggesting they are mafia, doesn't, and it's because they are newbies.

The two groups works because it allows newbies to still play, because we can't have that catch-22 phrase, "You can't play unless you've played 3 games already".

Wait, we're talking about hosting? Oh, well this benefits that greatly as well. But while we're on the subject, these are two main things that need to be sped up:

1) Nights - I have an idea: A 24 hour deadline, and if you don't get your PM in within that 24 hours, the host selects it randomly. If it's something like a one-shot item, they don't select it at all, and other stuff like that, etc.

2) Days - Less lurkers. Lurkers just jump on bandwagons and lurk in the day, not doing anything. There has to be some kind of strict day-replacing system set up.

[Hammered]

I moved the two league post over to Non-Hamumu games, where this sort of discussion belongs. If you wish to address that topic, please continue the discussion here: http://www.hamumu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14319

... and please PM me your opinions if you haven't done so already. I am fairly close to making a decision on who gets assigned to which team, and I don't want to overlook anyone. Details are in that thread.

[diginova]

You could do what MafiaScum does, even though most of their games last the better part of 6 months... have a secondary host and hard deadlines. If the host goes missing, the secondary host takes over (Hammered's been doing this). I also think we should break up mafia games into 2 parts... shorter games, with <10 players, and longer games, with a different sign up for each. They're both entirely different beasts.

[Mr.Onion]

That doesn't work, because we've only had 3 games with over 16 players.